Software manager works ugly

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gato2707
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Software manager works ugly

Postby gato2707 » 14 Apr 2014 05:10

Hi.

I used Software Manager to install libavcodec-extra in SolydK (64). As a result full KDE was deleted. Step away the obvius problem with the dependencies. Sofware Manager DOES NOT show any kind of warning about the risk to perform that action and simple perform the installation / uninstallation process.

Lesson learned, Synaptic o console is the only way.

Mint tools must be taken very carefully. May I sugest for future versions a change of tool, or maybe the developing of a own SolydXK graphical tool
Saludos desde México
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ScottQuier
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby ScottQuier » 14 Apr 2014 10:42

I, also, do not like the lack of feedback and information when using the Software Manager. Which is why I almost always use terminal and apt-get get for package install/removal. And, like you, Synaptic is the only GUI choice for me.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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zerozero
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby zerozero » 14 Apr 2014 11:54

gato2707 wrote:May I sugest for future versions a change of tool, or maybe the developing of a own SolydXK graphical tool
we are not in love either with software manager (to put it mildly :mrgreen: )

at the moment works (sort of) but has shortcomings and this one you are reporting (a design decision: for new users the less information displayed the better) is one of them.
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fkef
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby fkef » 14 Apr 2014 14:09

(a design decision: for new users the less information displayed the better) is one of them.
This is just an idea.

Using the software manager can be a risky operation, since you have no idea what dependencies that are installed or removed, and as zerozero says, it is by design, to make it more simple.

The question is: Does new users need to install, special codecs and libraries, or are they just installing standard applications?

As I understand deb-files, can be labelled in in different categories. There is a "section" tab in synaptic.

How about creating a category called "solydxk apps" and then make the software manager only display the applications in this section. This could be the most commonly used apps, and has been checked to not mess up the system. All other packages are hidden and only available from synaptics or the terminal.

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Zill
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby Zill » 14 Apr 2014 14:11

I can't really see why we need to "reinvent the wheel" on this one. Users comfortable with the CLI can use apt-get while users preferring to use a GUI (which includes CLI users sometimes!) can use Synaptic, which is really the "gold-standard" for GUI package managers. This makes the SolydXK Software Manager redundant, particularly as it simply is not as good as Synaptic.

Synaptic can possibly seem a bit daunting to "newbies" but it is probably better to produce a short HowTo document detailing the main points of using Synaptic than creating problems with an over-simplified Software Manager that may not work properly!

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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 14 Apr 2014 14:18

The added plus of Software Manager for new users is the user reviews of the packages, making it easier to decide which package to choose. They don't know the best software to choose for what they need, and Software Manager is an easy way to get started quickly.

The way the user reviews are implemented in Software Manager is a very different discussion.


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kobros
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby kobros » 14 Apr 2014 15:13

I never used Software Manager in SolyDXK, so I'm not even aware of this indicated _grave_ shortcoming. I use synaptic or the terminal. I do believe that it is much better to inform new users on how to use Synaptic properly and to point out to them to use its simulation features before actually committing to installing upgrades or new packages than it is to provide a tool that cannot be 100% trusted by new users.

The Software Managers I've seen in the (distant) past from Ubuntu seemed to get their 'popularity' ranking' just by the number of downloads, irrespective of other differentiating criteria, like desktop-environment and f.i. cultural preferences. I don't know whether they still do that, or even how SolydXK establishes and updates its list of popular applications. But even that isn't relevant if the 'easy SM installation' cannot be trusted.
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gato2707
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby gato2707 » 14 Apr 2014 18:05

Hi again.

If the Linux distros really wants to be installed in more than the ugly and terrible 2% of de desktop PC as today, they MUST change precisly in those things that are important for the "average end-user", It's means that the programmers should change their thinking-way.

Synaptic and the console are pretty good for me, and probably for a lot of the foum members. But think: Your Grand Pa will be happy with these tools? I don't believe so.

Are there "average end-user" happy with tools like Google Play, Mac App Store, Windows App Store (or any name that it has now)? Sure they are! More, they are more productive! :)

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Zill
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby Zill » 14 Apr 2014 20:40

gato2707 wrote:...If the Linux distros really wants to be installed in more than the ugly and terrible 2% of de desktop PC as today, they MUST change precisly in those things that are important for the "average end-user", It's means that the programmers should change their thinking-way...
Linux distros are not, in general, commercial products and so "market share" is totally irrelevant. FOSS programmers primarily work on what they want to and are therefore happy with the applications they write. IMHO, their is no need for them to "change their thinking".
gato2707 wrote:...Synaptic and the console are pretty good for me, and probably for a lot of the foum members. But think: Your Grand Pa will be happy with these tools? I don't believe so...
Grand Pa is welcome to use a Linux OS if he wants to - but that is his choice and he is always free to use a different OS.
gato2707 wrote:...Are there "average end-user" happy with tools like Google Play, Mac App Store, Windows App Store (or any name that it has now)? Sure they are! More, they are more productive!
Good for them! These "average end-users" are free to use any "average" OS. Personally, I choose to use Linux because it works best for me. I really don't care if it doesn't suit someone else. ;-)

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ScottQuier
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby ScottQuier » 14 Apr 2014 21:23

@gato2707

Your point #1 is valid. What needs to be remembered is that SolydXK is a very young distro and is maturing at the best rate possible given the resources available at this time. A case in point, the Software Manager needs to behave in a predictable manner as possible - no deleting packages when the user expects to installing packages ... at least not without warning.

Grandpa and synaptic and console. Ummmm .... different people have different abilities. My Grandpa, were he still alive, would be one that would have problems with these two tools. However, there are grand-parents in the forum who have no problem.

You third paragraph just supports your first and, aside from that support, adds nothing.

All of that having been said, Zill's point about FOSS programmers not really caring about market share is, in large, 100% correct. There are those who don't fit that mold - Schoelje is just one such example. However, the Linux community is going to have to get bigger/stronger before we get better and more consistent proprietary driver support from hardware vendors.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

Deleted User 2763

Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 14 Apr 2014 22:10

zerozero wrote:
gato2707 wrote:May I sugest for future versions a change of tool, or maybe the developing of a own SolydXK graphical tool
we are not in love either with software manager (to put it mildly :mrgreen: )

at the moment works (sort of) but has shortcomings and this one you are reporting (a design decision: for new users the less information displayed the better) is one of them.
That's the first thing I remove from "Favorites" ;)
-Hinto

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Longshot
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Re: Software manager works ugly

Postby Longshot » 15 Apr 2014 06:21

It worked fine for me, I have never had any probe with the software manager.


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